Ben Wilson, creator of the “How to Take Over the World” podcast, joins the show to discuss the patterns he has observed across eight years of studying history’s greatest leaders, while also sharing his personal experience facing stage-four neuroendocrine carcinoma with four young children and a prognosis that initially gave him one year to live.
Zeal as a driving force across history
Aristotle defined zeal as a specific type of pain felt when someone sees a person like themselves in nature who has accomplished admirable things they are capable of but have not yet achieved.
Thomas Edison at 21 stayed up all night reading Faraday’s biography, slammed it shut, and declared “I am going to hustle” because he realized Faraday had accomplished so much more by that age.
Julius Caesar wept at a statue of Alexander the Great because Alexander had conquered the world by Caesar’s age while Caesar had done nothing notable.
John D. Rockefeller felt zeal toward Amos Lawrence, a merchant who gave away $100,000 in his lifetime; ten-year-old Rockefeller told his friend “I’m going to be worth $100,000 someday.”
Ben identifies with Walt Disney rather than Da Vinci because Disney built “empires of the mind” through creative vision and leading others toward an aesthetic, whereas Da Vinci’s genius lay in perceptual and artistic skill Ben does not share.
Walt Disney was curious about things that never were but could be created; Da Vinci was curious about things as they are in the world — Ben leans toward the Disney model.
Notebooks, waste books, and creative process
Isaac Newton kept a “waste book” (book of scraps) where he dumped unimpeded thoughts without pressure to be refined or insightful; Ben believes this practice yields the most insightful realizations.
Ben keeps multiple notebooks: a detailed journal since his cancer diagnosis, and creative notebooks for poorly drawn sketches, episode planning, and mini-essays on historical figures that often become script material.
Eminem writes constantly across hundreds of notebooks but uses almost none of it — the openness of “waste” allows creativity to flow before the refining stage.
Ben writes terrible first drafts of episode introductions just to get started, then returns to polish them once the “juices are flowing.”
Origin and evolution of “How to Take Over the World”
In 2018, Ben was reading Andrew Roberts’ Napoleon biography while listening to Tim Ferriss interview guests he didn’t care about; he wished Ferriss could interview Napoleon, realized he could be “Tim Ferriss for dead people,” searched for such a podcast, found none, and created it.
The first episode was Napoleon; the second was Steve Jobs; the formula held for eight years.
Ben shut down his agency and stopped producing other podcasts (including “My First Million”) to focus entirely on his own show, applying the lesson that focus means saying no.
Breaking trade-offs as a core leadership skill
Steve Jobs at NeXT listed five priorities for the NeXT machine but refused to rank them, insisting all were equally important — the result was a late, over-budget, over-engineered product that nearly bankrupted the company.
Ten years later at Apple, Jobs embraced trade-offs: the iPod launched with less storage, fewer file formats, and fewer features than competitors, but Jobs bet everything on a superior user experience for getting to music quickly — it became one of the most successful products ever.
The Wright brothers succeeded where dozens failed because they realized lift and propulsion were easy problems; the hard problem was control. They spent years testing gliders as giant kites in North Carolina wind, mastering control before adding an engine.
Breaking trade-offs requires identifying what actually matters and having the courage to deliberately underperform on everything else — whether in product design, daily routines, or life priorities.
Ben applied this by stopping client work, side businesses, and his agency to focus solely on his podcast.
Three through-lines of great leaders across all domains
Vision: Genghis Khan said “without the vision of a goal, a man cannot hope to manage his own life, let alone the life of others” — the same quality that drives Edwin Land and Steve Jobs.
Communication: Every great leader is an excellent communicator in some medium — writing, speaking, one-on-one, mass communication — able to articulate their vision so others can follow.
Focus: The ability to shut out everything else and concentrate resources on the single decisive priority.
Common traits of history’s greatest achievers
Obsession: Arnold Schwarzenegger’s “Education of a Bodybuilder” (written at 30, mid-journey) captures the feeling of real-time obsession better than retrospective biographies; he explicitly stated he would apply the same playbook to business, movies, and politics — and did.
Unusual energy levels: Napoleon ate a whole chicken in 15 minutes; Steve Jobs ate only apples for months; Putin reportedly ate one boiled egg a day; Jonah Varc fasts constantly — light eating appears to be a proxy for obsession, not a cause.
Intense eyes/stares: Repeatedly noted in Jesus, Alexander Hamilton, Steve Jobs, Napoleon — a physical manifestation of singular focus.
Large heads: Commented on for Edison, Musk, Oprah, and others — possibly correlated with cognitive capacity or simply a curious pattern.
Sincere belief / religion of destiny: Napoleon treated destiny as his god (“destiny must be fulfilled, that is my chief doctrine”); Jobs had a sincere California-Buddhist conviction; double-mindedness (espousing beliefs one doesn’t truly hold) leads to instability.
Belief is irresistible: Phil Knight couldn’t sell encyclopedias or mutual funds but sold Tiger shoes exceptionally — the difference was genuine belief in the product.
Religious figures as case studies in clarity and relentlessness
Joan of Arc (15, malnourished, female in medieval warfare) turned a losing war around instantly because she had one priority — victory — and absolute clarity that God was on their side; the French leadership had competing priorities and made no progress for years.
Brigham Young (Ben’s great-great-grandfather): not the smartest, but possessed unceasing, relentless action; competitors of similarly driven people (Brandon Flowers of The Killers) complain “will you please calm down?” because the pace is inhuman.
Jesus / early Christianity: grew ~50% per year for centuries through compounding, not a single “big break”; Jesus’s persuasive ability and the intense focus on his eyes/gaze in the New Testament stand out.
Paul Graham’s determination vs. intelligence thought experiment: keep determination at 100 and reduce intelligence → person still succeeds (trash hauling business); keep intelligence at 100 and reduce determination → brilliant but ineffectual.
Conquerors as the pinnacle hierarchy
Ben finds conquerors most fascinating because violence sits at the top of all human hierarchies (social, economic, artistic, athletic); artists, merchants, and entrepreneurs ultimately answer to political power.
Napoleon’s “Mind of Napoleon” (300 pages of his own words) and “Ender’s Game” (fiction) are books Ben rereads annually.
Cancer diagnosis and treatment reality
Ben ignored worsening symptoms for months (weight loss, pain) assuming they would resolve; a primary care doctor felt his liver and sent him for immediate scans revealing extensive metastatic disease.
He put symptoms into Claude AI, which urged immediate ER visit — without treatment, he likely would have died within months.
Diagnosis: primary neuroendocrine carcinoma, stage 4, metastatic to liver, lungs, spine, and brain; 5-year survival rate for this presentation is 0%.
Completed chemotherapy (feels much better); now starting Tarlatamab (second-line drug, similar to immunotherapy), initially approved for small cell lung cancer where it extended life 6–12 months.
A subset of neuroendocrine patients have stayed on Tarlatamab for 2+ years with continued response — the hope is to buy time for next treatments.
Next target: SMARCA4 mutation; clinical trials are the likely next step if Tarlatamab fails.
Insurance initially denied Tarlatamab but a new positive study this month secured coverage.
Cutting-edge hope: custom mRNA vaccine to enhance Tarlatamab’s effectiveness — currently the frontier of cancer treatment and where Ben is directing resources.
Outlook: living two lives simultaneously
Ben prepares his family for the possibility he won’t be there, while simultaneously living as if he has 20 years ahead — holding both realities at once.
Context from history: Napoleon’s armies by the end were 15-year-old conscripts on untrained horses; disease and early death were the norm — Ben feels he has already had a “charmed life” with a wife he loves, four children, a vocation he wakes up excited for, and years doing work he loves.
Nietzsche’s eternal recurrence test: “If I could live my life over again the same exact way, I would” — Ben would choose this life again.
He has bad moments and pain, but the overall frame is gratitude, not pity.
John Huntsman (Utah billionaire) founded Huntsman Cancer Institute where Ben receives world-class care — Ben acknowledges his privilege (audience, resources) and urges support for cancer research so others without his advantages can also be helped.
Call to action
Ben’s email and GoFundMe link in show notes for anyone who can help with medical introductions, treatments, or donations — any amount helps his family through this time.
Also consider donating to Huntsman Cancer Institute or other cancer research to help patients without Ben’s platform and resources.
